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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:39 pm 
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Thanks, Merry Prankster! GC unsettled me. I'll never get over my mission.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:07 pm 
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After all the pre-GC hooplah predicting a major revelation that would affect every man, woman, and child in the Church, this mission age thing is a big letdown. Thank Woden that I didn't waste my time watching Conference!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:07 pm 
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cumom wrote:
If this had happened before I graduated from high school, I would've gone right away. I think it would've destroyed me. My freshman year of college before my mission gave me a foundation of being away from home, thinking for myself, forming relationships that were real and meaningful (I *still* have friends from that freshman year) before embarking. My mission almost killed me as it was. It definitely would have killed me had I gone right after high school graduation.

I wholeheartedly concur.

I have been thinking over these past couple of days why this announcement has made me so angry and sad. I think back to what a great time my senior year of high school was, not that my days were filled with riotous living by any stretch. (I have still never had even a sip of alcohol). A lot of the joy was getting to be somewhat carefree. Yeah, there was college in the near future, but having to be actively preparing for a mission while in high school would have been a real downer.

The other thing that has been bothering me is that I am now 4 years instead of 5 from my oldest either going on a mission or being tormented for not going. :(


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Does any other major religion focus so much on age? Obviously roman catholics do communion at 8, but otherwise I don't think there is something that's equivalent.

It has to do with separation from parents. Even that one year makes a huge difference in not being strong armed into something by one's parents.

There was no call to graduate from high school first, right? If not, I foresee one pdq. Not graduating from high school is bad long term for a person's earning potential. So I find it highly unlikely that anyone would be encouraged to go on a mission without their diploma. OR, a lot of ppl will start taking GEDs.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:45 pm 
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aerin wrote:
There was no call to graduate from high school first, right?

Graduation from high school or its equivalent is a requirement for the new 18-year-old option. This was part of the official announcement.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:38 pm 
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I think that the main reason they want the boys to go on missions younger, so that they will get married younger.
The LDS Church leaders want the young men to get married young.
LDS Apostle Dallin H. Oaks once stated.

Quote:
Our concept of marriage is motivated by revealed truth, not by worldly sociology. The Apostle Paul taught “neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord” (1 Cor. 11:11). President Spencer W. Kimball explained, “Without proper and successful marriage, one will never be exalted” (Marriage and Divorce, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1976, p. 24).

According to custom, men are expected to take the initiative in seeking marriage. That is why President Joseph F. Smith directed his prophetic pressure at men. He said, “No man who is marriageable is fully living his religion who remains unmarried” (Gospel Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1939, p. 275). We hear of some worthy LDS men in their thirties who are busy accumulating property and enjoying freedom from family responsibilities without any sense of urgency about marriage. Beware, brethren. You are deficient in a sacred duty.


(1993 Ensign)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:58 am 
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Celsius wrote:
I think that the main reason they want the boys to go on missions younger, so that they will get married younger.
The LDS Church leaders want the young men to get married young.
LDS Apostle Dallin H. Oaks once stated.

Quote:
Our concept of marriage is motivated by revealed truth, not by worldly sociology. The Apostle Paul taught “neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord” (1 Cor. 11:11). President Spencer W. Kimball explained, “Without proper and successful marriage, one will never be exalted” (Marriage and Divorce, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1976, p. 24).

According to custom, men are expected to take the initiative in seeking marriage. That is why President Joseph F. Smith directed his prophetic pressure at men. He said, “No man who is marriageable is fully living his religion who remains unmarried” (Gospel Doctrine, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1939, p. 275). We hear of some worthy LDS men in their thirties who are busy accumulating property and enjoying freedom from family responsibilities without any sense of urgency about marriage. Beware, brethren. You are deficient in a sacred duty.


(1993 Ensign)

My brain just exploded and I typed out a whole rant that then I somehow lost in the ether of the interwebs. So let me just wave my hands around as if ranting.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:34 am 
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Okay, who takes religious advice from an 18-year-old? Or a nineteen, twenty, or twenty-one year old? Maybe I'm just old and grumpy, but I almost have to laugh when the missionaries stop by and presume to know more about religion and spirituality than I do. For the love of dog, I have dust on my TV older than they are!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:51 am 
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belaja wrote:
This makes me think, funnily enough, of one of those "I Am An Ex-Mormon" videos. I watched it, oh, it's been quite some time ago now. The subject of this particular video is a woman in maybe her late 50s who lives in Salt Lake. She talked about one of her wake-up moments and it was a somewhat unusual one.

She was one of those women who'd been made the nursery teacher and actually really loved it. She loved the kids, loved the lessons they had for the kids. She said the lessons were things like "God made puppies. He loves puppies. We love puppies. Let's all be kind to puppies and take good care of them."

Then one year she went to a meeting where they were introducing a new curriculum. Now the nursery curriculum would teach "deep doctrine" -- Joseph Smith's first vision, the apostasy and restoration, the nature of the godhead, sin and repentance, eternal progression, what have you. To kids from 18 months to age three. She was quite appalled by it and asked why they were making this change. They said that the GAs were concerned about how many people - including many BIC, raised in the church people - were leaving the church. They felt like if they just started indoctrinating earlier that kids would not leave the church when they were older. She was a devout believer, but said she couldn't see the move as anything but "a violation of young minds." So she started questioning and investigating things - why ARE so many lifelong members leaving the church? - and eventually . . . well, you all know the story.

I think the common thread here to the new mission age (yes, I have a point) is the kind of insane linearity to this. We'll just teach 'em younger and younger and their brains will just be FULL UP with church stuff. I mean they can't even let 18 month olds talk about puppies, for Spider Pig's sake! We have to stuff their heads full of our narrative before their brains are even developed enough for language. If teaching them starting at oh, four or five, doesn't keep them from leaving the church as adults, then we'll start teaching them at a year and a half.

It's amazing to me that they don't look at what they're doing. The unspoken assumption here is that the people are somehow deficient. If they just got with the program (young enough) they wouldn't be doing this. So no examination of the death of community at the hands of correlation and pervasive corporatism. No looking at how defunding the local level has killed the members' experience, and of course, OF COURSE, no looking at the actual dubious truth claims they're trying to put across. What we're doing isn't working and so rather than look for why we'll just do MORE of it, SOONER.

I think this is a similar impulse. We'll just send them younger, when they're less developed, and we'll get them molded right earlier on and later they "won't depart from it." It's just jaw-droppingly dumb. I think it's going to cause all kinds of problems on all kinds of levels (both for individuals and institutionally) and it isn't going to stop people leaving in droves 5, 10, 15 or more years down the line.



The church needs to study some basic human psychology, for fuck's sake. You don't keep people from leaving by filling their heads with more mumbo jumbo at an earlier age. What you need to do is strengthen the tribe through tradition, social activities, ritual, etc. Once the church correlated itself and started eliminating the very things that bound people to the tribe, they started hemorrhaging.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Musings From The Mission Field

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:40 pm 
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RicoBabalu wrote:





Mmmm ... the hubris is strong with this one ....

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:26 am 
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Dumbshit Missionary in France wrote:
all a missionary really needs to learn at the MTC is some unique door approaches, clever comebacks to all of satan's arguments, a commitment to "never take no for an answer," a little jujitsu, some basic escape and evasion tactics, and the ability to run like heck at a moment's notice. voila! hahahaha :-))))))))))))))

so take that sister horse face and all you other miss bossy pantses. face it, what's really bothering you is that the new 19 year old sister missionaries are going to be way hotter than any of you and when you get back home youll all be in your mid-twenties and too over the hill and fat and prideful to get dates. SO THERE! :-PPPPP


For those who are too lazy to click.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:40 pm 
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The New York Times reports that Young Mormon Women Jump at the Chance to Become Missionaries.

Quote:
Michael Purdy, a spokesman for the church, said that typically about 700 new applications for missionary service were initiated each week. Since the announcement, the number has jumped to about 4,000 applications each week, and slightly more than half of the applicants are women.


Interesting. If slightly more than half of applicants are women (as opposed to about 10-15% in the past) then this could really, REALLY change the dynamic in the mission field.

My original bet with this was that these girls are going to be slapped in the face by patriarchy with the gloves off for the first time and that it would cause a lot of questioning, etc.

On the other hand, if fully HALF of missionaries are women, they're going to have to deal with the presence of females differently (one would hope anyway) - where it's no longer a question of females being allowed into the male world on sufferance, but of them being represented in the same number that they are in the population. It will be interesting to see what happens.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:01 am 
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belaja wrote:
The New York Times reports that Young Mormon Women Jump at the Chance to Become Missionaries.

Quote:
Michael Purdy, a spokesman for the church, said that typically about 700 new applications for missionary service were initiated each week. Since the announcement, the number has jumped to about 4,000 applications each week, and slightly more than half of the applicants are women.


Interesting. If slightly more than half of applicants are women (as opposed to about 10-15% in the past) then this could really, REALLY change the dynamic in the mission field.

My original bet with this was that these girls are going to be slapped in the face by patriarchy with the gloves off for the first time and that it would cause a lot of questioning, etc.

On the other hand, if fully HALF of missionaries are women, they're going to have to deal with the presence of females differently (one would hope anyway) - where it's no longer a question of females being allowed into the male world on sufferance, but of them being represented in the same number that they are in the population. It will be interesting to see what happens.

My mission was pretty close to 1/2 sisters, because my mission prez loved sisters because they were more "obedient" and "focused." Anyway, many cities had an elder pair and a sister pair. I'm not sure if it really changed the dynamic for the sisters or not, but it's hard for me to think of a mission with only 10% sisters.


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